The Scrimba Podcast

Khaidem Sandip Singha (00:00):
At the beginning I was suffering from depression, so I was very afraid to go out. When I look back where I was and now where I am to the point of extreme excitement. I don't know how to explain the opposite sides of that.

Alex Booker (00:17):
Hello and welcome to The Scrimba Podcast. On this weekly show, I speak of successful developers about their advice on learning to code and getting your first junior developer job. My name is Alex, and today I'm joined by Khaidem, who is a self-taught developer that just got a job as an engineer at Amazon. Khaidem grew up in the state of India called Assam, which is known for wildlife and tea plantations, less so JavaScript and React. It seemed natural that because there were civil engineering jobs going in this rural area that Khaidem should pursue civil engineering and study thus university. Even though he got a bachelor, it turned out he wasn't that interested in it. He was much more interested in the work his roommates doing programming got to do, so he set out to teach himself programming.

(01:04):
Something you'll hear a lot about during this interview is this website called LeetCode, which is where you solve advanced programming problems, especially algorithmic ones against the clock. It's not just enough to solve the problem. Your solution has to be efficient as well. 1000 LeetCode challenges later, Khaidem got a job at Amazon and he was overjoyed. This is the story about battling depression, coasting through an internship during the pandemic before eventually being put through the ringer at Amazon and getting a job. You are listening to The Scrimba Podcast. Let's get into it.

Khaidem Sandip Singha (01:41):
Before I started coding, I had a bachelors of technology in civil engineering. After I graduated, I transitioned into computer programming and then now I'm working in Amazon. Basically, I did not have any idea what to do after I finished my high school. So as I grew up in a place where civil engineering jobs were in high number, I decided to join civil engineering with the guidance of my parents and family's friends. And later when I was graduating, I realized that I have no interest, but I had a good college education, I had 8.5 CGPA out of 10. Basically it was good, but still I had a bigger interest in computer programming. As my own roommate is a software development engineer at Microsoft right now. So all of my roommates were also from computer science degree. And I don't know who played a big role, but that's how it goes.

Alex Booker (02:51):
That's remarkable because sometimes once you've gone to university and you've graduated, and especially if you felt like this was something that your friends and family were associated with, it's quite difficult to change and do something new. But it sounds like your roommates were doing programming and it was just something that you found interesting and wanted to learn more about yourself. How did you go about actually learning to code? Because, okay, your friends studied computer science, but you already had a degree, so I guess you had to go online and figure out the best way to learn for you.

Khaidem Sandip Singha (03:20):
I started with Udacity, Introduction to Programming Nanodegree. Basically what I told was that I am not going to go any college education anymore. There were many news out there where people without any degree were having a job. I mean there were developers in big, big companies, so I decided I can do it. I'm from India but I have no idea if it is possible, but I don't know, I have a faith that I can do it. So I certificate course from Udacity thinking that once I get a certificate I will get a job. So I kept on doing and doing certificate after certificate, but I think I had a very big interest completing certificates every day, but I still let the skills to apply for the job.

Alex Booker (04:05):
What kind of skills were they? What came to mind?

Khaidem Sandip Singha (04:07):
Understanding the basics. It was like learning the alphabets. I understood the sentences but I didn't understand alphabets. So when an interviewer asked me the basic questions in the interview, I couldn't connect the dots and present a solution to them. So that is what I felt I missed when I learned the certificate courses.

Alex Booker (04:29):
It's interesting you identified that. How did you go about fixing it?

Khaidem Sandip Singha (04:33):
I had to understand what are the developers in big companies like Amazon, Facebook, Google, we're different from others. I want to be the best. I want to work with the best, so I wanted to learn what the best are doing. I identify one trait. In the interviews, they ask the basic questions, they focus on the basics and they focus on problem solving. So I figured out that in order to work with the best, I have to be very clear on my foundations. I have to know how to develop a solution. And slowly, slowly I have to look for courses similar to what can be helpful for me, such as learning from Glide Code for example, and not only just looking at YouTube but also challenging myself for example, Scrimba optional course is one thing that I love the most.

(05:26):
When I see Bob Ziroll course, the thing about him is that he wants to tell a story. A story that people clearly understand and also is able to reproduce the same story from the on site. I feel like we can also do the same thing exactly Bob Ziroll is doing in our own way. We connect our own dots and present a solution in our own way. I had to search for it and then I have to keep on searching and searching for good courses and trying out many things and then I have to filter many things out and stick with the best.

Alex Booker (06:01):
I love your approach where you looked at what the best developers were doing to try and replicate that and that you identified LeetCode as something that some of the best developers do. I know that not every developer wants to do LeetCoding, but if you're talking about funky companies like Amazon and Google and Microsoft, these type of LeetCode questions often come up in the interviews and they're almost a prerequisite to be successful. How did you approach LeetCode? I remember looking at your profile a few weeks ago and you were just incredibly consistent I thought, and I think you've done something like a thousand LeetCode challenges now, which is just incredible, Khaidem.

Khaidem Sandip Singha (06:41):
It was something that I notice what makes best developers, they're very consistent and they're very persistent. There's one of the best advice that I learned and as you have said that I have done 1000 LeetCode challenges, so I was never good at LeetCode. I did 300 coding challenges, but I was still not good. I had to be consistent and there are many days I had to take help. I had to learn how to ask questions and just basically keep on looking for answers in YouTube and community channels.

Alex Booker (07:16):
Consistent and persistent. I like that a lot. Did you find that you got a lot better at LeetCode and the challenges became easier as you did more of them?

Khaidem Sandip Singha (07:25):
Yes. I didn't know when did I become better, but one day I just was on my 600 challenge or 700 challenge, I see that there's a pattern that I have developed, I have learned from my previous questions. Now I see that why the questions before me were looking difficult and now I find it very easy. So then I realize that if I have given up before then I would have never faced the 600 challenge and I would say now it's easy. The thing that I said, persistent and consistency, I never knew it until I came to my 600, 800 challenge.

(07:59):
At the time one of my mentors had said that it is not someone who is smart that makes a good developer, a smart developer can leave this job and start doing other things, but it is someone who is consistent, who is ready to do it every day. And every day is like a fresh day for them and he is willing to not give up no matter what. That is what makes them a very good developer, programmer or a software engineer. And I was quite happy when I was able to raise my 1000 coding challenge.

Alex Booker (08:34):
I think you're absolutely onto something though because it's hard to predict when that moment is going to come where you find things a bit easier. It's not always the case you wake up one morning and you're like, "Oh, this is easy for me now." It kind of creeps up on you, but the only way to get there is to practice consistently. I have to be honest, a lot of my previous guests on the podcast, they haven't done LeetCode and things like that. I'm going to link your LeetCode challenge profile in the show notes so people can see your contribution graph and the challenges you've been doing. But just remind us, why was LeetCode so important to your journey? Is it because you really wanted to work at a FANG company like Amazon or did you just use it as a tool to become the best developer you can be and trust that you would get the job you want at the end?

Khaidem Sandip Singha (09:22):
When I was working in many frameworks like WordPress and ReactJS, Django, I noticed that I can work with a framework to a certain extent. A framework can provide me solutions to a certain extent, but to develop a new feature, I cannot rely on a framework. I have to develop my own solution. So I found LeetCode or any other coding challenges like HackerRank, they helped me out in developing that problem solving ability. When I saw that if I do a lot of data structures on strings, how to reverse the last element in the first element in the error, how to do it in the lowest time possible, how to reverse an error, I found that it is very helpful to reduce the operation costs for any development and not only that, it's like Context API, instead of developing repeated code, I could picture that thing in my mind when I started solving questions on LeetCode. It was helping me indirectly in my developing life and many other expect.

(10:28):
So that's why I wanted to go deeper and deeper so that I can make things more simpler and fast. That made me go more deeper into LeetCode and getting into FANG was never a dream for me, but I thought it was always out of my reach. I thought I was never enough as I came from a place where I think everyone got into FANG through a degree and not without a degree. So I thought I'm thinking too big, but it was really a surprise for me when I got this job in Amazon and I could not express how delighted I was.

Alex Booker (11:05):
Khaidem and me will be right back. But first Jan, the producer and I have a quick favor to ask from you.

Jan Arsenovic (11:13):
Hello, I'm Jan, the producer and this is the middle where I remind you that the best way to support the show is to share it with someone. Word of mouth always counts and if you know someone who's learning to code and would benefit from what we're doing here, why not share the podcast with them? On socials, on Discord or in person. And if you're feeling extra supportive, we would really appreciate a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening to this. If there's a way to leave a rating, it is absolutely valuable. We are a weekly show and we have a new inspiring and insightful interview every Tuesday and if you subscribe to the show, you can make sure you're not going to miss a thing. Next week on the podcast, Mike Chen, a former hiring manager at Airbnb and a very experienced senior developer now CTO in his own right. Stay tuned for that. And now back to the interview with Khaidem.

Alex Booker (12:09):
I'm actually super excited to learn a bit about how you started navigating your first programming jobs because I think you worked somewhere before Amazon. What kind of development were you doing? Because I saw in the past where you did a bit of Android development but you were also watching Bob's courses which you enjoyed on Scrimba and you mentioned WordPress and you mentioned Django. Was there a particular type of development that you really liked? Or maybe you're one of those people who just thinks, "Okay, I've got a problem, I'm just going to find the right tool for the job." You don't really have a loyalty to any particular coding language or framework.

Khaidem Sandip Singha (12:42):
It's not like that. I don't know why I changed frameworks. I came to realize later only after moving into three, four frameworks. Then I realize I have done so many frameworks.

Alex Booker (12:54):
Did you regress that a little bit?

Khaidem Sandip Singha (12:55):
Sometimes I would've sticked to one framework and master it and then I realized... No, I didn't regret it because I feel like I should keep on exploring. I wouldn't say I regretted it, but I wanted to be good in something at the end.

Alex Booker (13:09):
I can relate to that and I think a lot of people listening can as well because it is tempting to try a bunch of different coding languages and frameworks and you can learn the basics in a week or two probably, but then you're okay at a bunch of different tools. You're not great at one of them and normally when you have a product to build or a freelance job to do or a job interview to crack, it's more helpful if you're just really good at one, maybe two things.

Khaidem Sandip Singha (13:36):
Yeah, that's when I started looking into things like LeetCode challenges so that I can develop skills on basics, not much on frameworks because I can learn frameworks very easily, but to understand and keep my foundation strong, it takes time. If I know the foundations very well, it is very easy to learn any framework.

Alex Booker (13:57):
That's such a good point because frameworks and programming languages, they're just tools. The real job that programmers do is solve problems and come up with instructions. Since you've done so many LeetCode challenges and coding challenges, do you have any advice that you've learned about how to solve problems when you're faced with a challenge in your project or maybe you need to implement your own logic because there isn't a function that exists for that thing already?

Khaidem Sandip Singha (14:24):
When you have solved so many coding challenges in LeetCode, whenever I go and see a development project, I first try to understand the architecture as I approach a coding problem. So it's just like this. First I see a question, I try to understand the question. After I understand the question, I will see what approach I can go with, the best possible approach. And then I write it down, whatever approach I can and if it does not work, I ask for help. This is how I normally approach Glide Code problem. This is someone who has practice over 800 questions above. For a beginner you'll just jump into looking solutions and just write it down. Now coming to the development project, in the same way I try to see what solutions has been implemented and as I have already solved many LeetCode challenges, in the LeetCode challenge, when I press submit it, always check for the best code possible.

(15:22):
So it used to give time limit exceed, means it took more than five seconds to complete a process. This kind of solutions are not accepted in a LeetCode. So in the same way when I see Ament project, I see if this particular function is going to take around five seconds, four seconds, just imagining that if it can be reduced. So these things automatically come to my mind and not only that, making it simpler. When I have seen my colleagues developing a front end website where they were using a lot of components like A, B, C, D, E, F. A component was calling B component. B component was calling C component. C was calling D likewise. It was a long list. It was going to take five steps down and five steps up. I said that no, this is very long process. We can make it more simpler.

(16:12):
So using Context API or Redux, we make it more simpler. So we can identify some things like this if we want to make our development projects more simpler, not only for the developers but for the customers because the customers will experience a much better speed when they open a website.

Alex Booker (16:32):
Definitely.

Khaidem Sandip Singha (16:32):
And they'll have less errors.

Alex Booker (16:34):
It sounds like your advice to problem solving is to practice a lot because the more problems you solve... And it's okay to ask for help if you're stuck. The greater your intuition is so that in the future if you see a similar problem, like your example where component A is calling B, C and so on, you know that there's a better way to do it and that's where design patterns can come in also optimizations, but I guess in a lot of cases with frameworks and libraries, there are sometimes implementations of a design pattern that you can latch onto. So the right thing to do in React is use the context API in your example I guess. But yeah, the more problems you're exposed to, the better you're going to get to recognizing the patterns I think.

Khaidem Sandip Singha (17:16):
Yes, because whatever solutions that I have implemented on LeetCode challenges, these are also solutions already existing, so I have to search for it and maybe implement in the new way. For example, we have different ways of writing follow. This is why I always try to suggest anyone to at least have a good understanding of strings and error that are structures if anyone is going for a React developer or front end developer job, which is extensively using objects and strings and error.

Alex Booker (17:47):
So Khaidem, is amazing to hear a bit about how you learned to code and practiced, but eventually the time came for you to apply for jobs or think about what you're going to do for your career. You had a degree already, but it was in civil engineering and it seems like you lived somewhere where there wasn't a lot of tech jobs. How did you go about navigating your job search at the beginning?

Khaidem Sandip Singha (18:08):
At the beginning, I was suffering from depression at that moment, so I was very afraid to go out. That is why I started near my hometown. I could have directly come to China or Bangalore where I am right now, but at the time I was mentally suffering and I had to get over my own mental health. So I started to go the easy way, I started to look work around my hometown. Since I was regularly practicing, I couldn't help myself applying for better jobs one after another. And then everyone knows that two years of gap we have in the whole world, COVID 19. Still, I was able to have a job during the time and then during the time, I found a better opportunity. Now it was into a ReactJs role and all the frameworks that I have worked with, I found ReactJS to be the best. I would say Bob Ziroll was the reason I could understand it. I don't know, maybe two years of practice made me understand Bob Ziroll course or he was the best I would say, till now.

Alex Booker (19:16):
Let's go with that.

Khaidem Sandip Singha (19:17):
I was able to crack all ReactJS interview because of Bob Ziroll. Every questions that they asked me on React, I definitely answered them as fast as I could. Cranking a React interview was a piece of cake for me.

Jan Arsenovic (19:31):
Me. Okay, we have another Bob Ziroll fan over here. Bob is one of the internet's favorite React teachers and also he's the head of education on Scrimba and we had him on the show just last week.

Bob Ziroll (19:42):
In the evenings sitting in my wife's tiny, tiny walk-in closet, the only place I could get good sound. I recorded the original React course I think in 2018. It was really important to use the Scrimba platform to its full potential, which later we realized that I was only scratching the surface and people liked it. Anything in this life that you have gotten good at, you've done it because you practiced. The easiest way to learn something new is to do it the hardest way possible, which is to actually do it.

Jan Arsenovic (20:11):
This was a really fun and informative episode, and if you haven't listened to it, find it wherever you're listening to this or at scrimba.com/podcast/bob-ziroll. That's Z-I-R-O-L-L. And now back to the show.

Alex Booker (20:27):
First of all, I'm really sorry to hear that you felt depressed and deflated and at the same time I'm really impressed honestly about your approach because I think when you're feeling like you're struggling, it can be super overwhelming. And instead of coming to a stop and giving up, you found a way to make it work for you. You stayed locally and you started in a job that maybe wasn't your perfect job, but you knew it was a starting point and I just wanted to say I thought that was really impressive.

Khaidem Sandip Singha (20:55):
I also think it was impressive. I always wondered that, how did I get through that period? But I am quite happy right now where I am.

Alex Booker (21:04):
That's really inspiring to hear and I think that a lot of people are listening, I don't know how many, I just know that different developers have different journeys and for some people they manage it really smoothly. Things go as planned. For many of us it can be a very difficult time transitioning careers and so much of our happiness comes from our purpose, knowing what we want to do. So much of our happiness comes from contributing to society, being between jobs, it can feel very confusing and a lot of our happiness as well comes from being around people who share our values and find the same things we do interesting.

(21:41):
And I just know that when you're between jobs, those things don't always exist and so I really appreciate you telling us about your story because I'm sure at least a few people will resonate with it today and it will remind other people that this is a long process where you have to manage your emotions as well as your study schedule. The first job you did, did they give you a job interview and stuff right away for the full-time job or was it more like an internship?

Khaidem Sandip Singha (22:09):
I think it was an internship because [inaudible 00:22:13] knew that I came from a civil engineer background, so maybe he just wanted to give me time to understand and also understand the IT world.

Alex Booker (22:23):
How did that work? Internships in my experience, they're like long job interviews where they hire you for a summer, like three months or something and then at the end they either hired you full time or they don't, right? And that's scary. What was your experience?

Khaidem Sandip Singha (22:37):
My experience, I wanted to find a better job. I thought that I was overqualified.

Alex Booker (22:42):
So you had quite an easy time at the internship.

Khaidem Sandip Singha (22:45):
It was very easy. Even the employer told me, "I think you can even run the whole company." Something like that. I don't know what he said.

Alex Booker (22:53):
All right. What did you decide to do next? What was the next job and what did that interview process look like? Was it more challenging maybe?

Khaidem Sandip Singha (22:59):
The next interview process was also very easy, but I decided to stick with it because there was a pandemic going on.

Alex Booker (23:04):
That's a very good point. It was hard to be picky and choosy when the world was ending and the economy was collapsing. Most people felt just pretty happy to have a job at that time.

Khaidem Sandip Singha (23:15):
Yes. And then I found Scrimba, the JavaScriptmas 2020.

Alex Booker (23:19):
Oh, no way. That's how you learned about Scrimba? Awesome.

Khaidem Sandip Singha (23:22):
Yes. I was attending a challenge around Christmas. And the lottery for the Eternal Award, that's Scrimba subscription forever, I was hoping to win it, but I got a discount still.

Jan Arsenovic (23:38):
So for the uninitiated, Scrimba organizes coding challenges from time to time and recently we had on the show somebody who took part in one of them, managed to also win a membership and changed careers at the age of 49.

Theo Ntogiakos (23:52):
You can have all the talent in the world, but if you code once every 15 days or a month or whatever, you're never going to develop. I've only started looking into what to do in January. I heard from someone else about boot camps. I had not heard about boot camps at all. I decided to see if I could become a developer, which I didn't think was possible.

Jan Arsenovic (24:12):
I'm linking the episode in the show notes. It was also a good one.

Alex Booker (24:15):
Nice. Congrats. I don't remember the specifics, but I certainly remember you being a very active part of these Scrimba community. We used to host these weekly community meetups on Zoom. We stopped doing them probably half a year ago, but back then, I think you attended almost everyone and it was always super nice to see you. Did that kind of community aspect help you on your journey at all?

Khaidem Sandip Singha (24:38):
Yes. You see, I was missing the part where I have my colleagues help me out with different problems and I attended the Zoom meetings to not only interact with people from Scrimba but also from around the world. I just wanted to feel like how people smile, people talk or interact when they are developer. There was also COVID and I didn't get to experience that friendship from my colleagues as much as I could have done in my college days. I missed that part. So the reason I joined Zoom is to just increase my communication skills and learn a lot.

Alex Booker (25:15):
Yeah, man, that's really nice and I'm really happy the Scrimba community could give you that feeling of being around like-minded developers. And one thing I'm learning from Khaidem, is that there's a lot of value in looking at how the people who are doing what you want to do practice and behave. Early in the interview you mentioned your favorite developers basically working at these awesome companies. What do they do? They practice LeetCodes. So you did that and now you are appreciating the softer side of things like how do successful developers, reputable companies communicate and talk about coding and stuff like that. And so it wasn't too much longer after that, that you started to go through the interview process at Amazon. Let's change gears a little bit and talk all about that because it's a really big deal. Obviously, Amazon is a huge tech company. You got in without a degree, which is super impressive. How did you learn about the job opportunity and what was the application process like for a company like Amazon?

Khaidem Sandip Singha (26:14):
Basically, I know that Amazon does not respond to any job applications that easily. I applied for Amazon jobs many months ago. So I just kept my resume there and then in my email list I just saw a coding contest by Amazon. Coding contest, they had some data structures, LeetCode type questions, I think some MCQ questions and two LeetCode type questions. I thought that why not give it a try? There is no harm in giving a try. I just prepare for the coding contest. And then four or five days later I got a surprise. I have been invited to an interview and they sent me to upload my resume. That's how it started.

Alex Booker (26:55):
Oh, so part of the application process, you upload your resume and you have to solve a couple of LeetCode type questions?

Khaidem Sandip Singha (27:03):
Actually it was a global contest, it was running on some HackerRank website so I decided to apply for it and they invited me.

Alex Booker (27:11):
Amazing. And normally companies like Amazon, they do a few different rounds of interviews. How many rounds did they do?

Khaidem Sandip Singha (27:18):
They usually have four, five rounds for different roles. In my case I had four rounds.

Alex Booker (27:24):
What did they ask of you in the first round?

Khaidem Sandip Singha (27:26):
It was LeetCode type questions.

Alex Booker (27:29):
Perfect. These LeetCode questions, did they feel familiar because you've been practicing on LeetCode for so long?

Khaidem Sandip Singha (27:34):
Definitely, yes. If you don't practice for it, you'll suffer because you have to explain what you have solved and if you have solved it, you have to make sure that you can improve that solution. So it's not just, "I have solved it. That's it." It's going to be a back and forth questions also.

Alex Booker:
Well Khaidem, and so in the second round... I'm curious to know. On Discord you wrote situational questions but I don't actually know what that means. What's a situational question?

Khaidem Sandip Singha:
It's about what would you do if you are in such a situation, when you're managing a project or something like that.

Alex Booker:
There were four interview rounds. How long did it take them to tell you the results of the interview after your last round?

Khaidem Sandip Singha:
You can allot your own slots, basically for the interview. It can happen in one day, it can happen in a span of two weeks. So mine took two weeks and the result was announced a week later.

Alex Booker:
You wanted a bit of time between interviews to prepare to rest and get ready?

Khaidem Sandip Singha:
Yeah, I was working at the time so I had to give my interview after my job.

Alex Booker:
One week to wait for the result. That's not terrible. But at the same time it is nerve wracking waiting to hear back. Did you have a feeling about what they would say? Did you feel like you did well at the interview? Were you just not sure? Tell us about that week leading up to you getting an email from them. How did you feel?

Khaidem Sandip Singha:
I never tried to have expectations. I remember crying once when I had expected to get an offer before. So for Amazon in this case, I share my feedback with some of my colleagues who are already working in Amazon and they said, "Brother, you are going to get selected, don't worry." They gave me hope, but still I wanted to hear officially because there are so many factors that need to be taken into account. So when I got it, I think I jump up.

Alex Booker:
You jumped for joy?

Khaidem Sandip Singha:
Yes. I thought that in order to produce positive motivation that I'm going to do it no matter what one day. So I used to say to my colleagues that I'm going to work in Amazon, I'm going to work on Facebook. Even when I was eating with them, I should say to them that, "What is your long term plan?" Some say that they want to open their own company and I said, "I want to go for this main companies." Just to avoid negative thoughts, but to have a long term plan no matter what the result is. If not today, then tomorrow. If not tomorrow, then tomorrow surely I will be joining it.

So I was surprised, way, way too surprised because when I look back where I was completely depressed and now where I am to the point of extreme excitement. I don't know how to explain the opposite sides of that. So I don't know whom should I share my story with, how will they understand it or if I'll be able to explain my story. It's a story that I thought I could tell to someone to inspire or if the time comes.

Alex Booker:
I think it has been a very inspiring story, from feeling depressed and not sure about what to do to now working at one of the most prestigious tech companies. That's not everybody's goal, but it was yours and obviously it made you really happy and it's just extremely exciting that Scrimba could play a part. And super thankful Khaidem, that you've taken some time with us today to tell us about your story. We have to wrap up in a minute, but do you have any closing advice to anyone listening who's trying to learn to code and break into tech? Anything you maybe wish you knew at the beginning of your journey?

Khaidem Sandip Singha:
I would say that from what I have learned from my mentors and what I have observed, that please don't give up. Be persistent in what you do and be consistent. That's something that I have observed that anyone from any background who has these traits is able to do great things in the days to come.

Alex Booker:
Yes. That's awesome Khaidem, and a wonderful note to end on. Thank you so much for joining me on The Scrimba Podcast.

Khaidem Sandip Singha:
Thank you, Alex.

Jan Arsenovic:
Thank you for listening to The Scrimba Podcast and make sure to check out the show notes. If you like the show, check out our back catalog or subscribe to it wherever you listen to podcasts to make sure not to miss the upcoming ones. We publish a new podcast every Tuesday evening, London Time, and we really enjoy telling the stories of people from all over the world that can also help new developers just like you. And speaking of all over the world, the show is hosted by Alex Booker, who is recording from London. Scrimba is based out in Norway, and I'm your slightly nomadic producer, Jan, currently recording this in Athens, Greece.

Where are you listening from? Tweet at us and let us know. And don't forget to share what you learned from the pod. Until then, we will see you next week.