The Scrimba Podcast

Anthony (00:00):
I was talking to my wife and I said, "it was really fun, I hope they called me back." And then they called me 10 minutes later. I really liked our talk, and they put an offer.

Alex Booker (00:09):
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, did you say after 10 minutes?

Alex Booker (00:13):
Hello and welcome to the Scrimba podcast. On this weekly show, I speak with successful developers about their advice on learning to code and getting your first junior Deb job. I'm Alex. And today am joined by a recently hired developer and Scrimba students by the name of Anthony. Anthony worked at an aquarium and went from knowing very little code to being hired as a full time junior developer in 364 days, which is quite remarkable isn't it, almost one year to a day later, Anthony was hired. It's interesting because when Anthony decided he was ready to start applying for jobs, things felt quite bleak at first.

Alex Booker (00:56):
Maybe he jumped the gun and wasn't ready, but just 35 days later after rapidly and intelligently tweaking his approach based on what worked and what didn't he received a formal offer.

Anthony (01:07):
All the interviews I had, they always mentioned that, "Yeah, I really liked resume and your project". And I was like, okay, that seemed to work a lot. Because I started applying for jobs the 1st of February, and I got two or three rejections and I was like, okay, I need to do something different.

Alex Booker (01:21):
I'm really happy. You get to learn from Anthony's experience. As some of the things he learned will definitely help you too.

Alex Booker (01:27):
You are listening to the grimmer podcast, let's get into it.

Anthony (01:32):
I started off like most people do looking on YouTube and thinking, Hmm. It looks interesting to maybe make a simple website and then I didn't do anything for, I think a year and a half.

Anthony (01:43):
And then through my job at Sea life, they started making a new website. So they totally new website from the ground up with the help of a CMS. So I just got a big file, the placeholder images and everything, and just started populating that. So that's a bit how I got in touch with building websites, but totally not writing my own code or anything.

Alex Booker (02:03):
Sea life is like an aquarium. Right. What did you do there? Were you like on the tax side or on more of the venue side?

Anthony (02:09):
No, it was just a really small team. So everyone has multiple task and there was some changes in the company and they were like, we need somebody to do the website. And I was like, yeah, Sure, I'll give it a try.

Alex Booker (02:21):
Oh wow.

Anthony (02:21):
Yeah. I was already doing some of the design, so I was doing a lot of school posters and banners and wall stickers and stuff like that.

Anthony (02:30):
So I was kind of familiar with Photoshop and everything, but it's totally different to build a website of course. But I think I get the hang of this, just watch some tutorials and take step by step. And that's a bit how it went in the beginning. But that was only a two month process I think, two months to get the website up and running. It was the end of 2020. And I started Scrimba in, let me see 2021 in April. So I had a bit of tutorial hell and everything in between from December to April. So I watched lots of YouTube, I did the free code camp, they also have the HTML CSS part. It was okay, it was nice to get started with it and get a bit acquainted with HTML, writing on code or how everything works.

Anthony (03:15):
But what really helped me a lot was the front end career path of Scrimba that really gave me the structure. I think I needed and motivation to keep going, because you have all the lessons and everything.

Alex Booker (03:25):
I'm just wondering was your goal at the beginning to like become a professional web developer and change your career or was it just something you stumbled into when you found interesting as the opportunities presented themselves?

Anthony (03:36):
Well, it was really the idea to, I wanted to have a job changed in a year, which almost well it's funny. Because the 24th of April, I started Scrimba and I started my new job to 25th. So it's one day.

Alex Booker (03:48):
No way.

Anthony (03:49):
But my goal was really to get in-. One year I want to be a higher bot developer or at least find a starting job because I really there's those few months of playing with code and trying all the different frameworks and reading a lot of stuff.

Anthony (04:02):
I was like, okay, yes. I think this can be a new hobby of mine. And then I thought, oh, I maybe would like to do this as a job. Especially seeing all the different things you can do with it. There's so many different routes you can take. And yeah, I was like, let's give it a try, let's start.

Alex Booker (04:16):
Were you confident that you could become successful at it?

Anthony (04:20):
No, not at all. Not at all. I'm still-. Now, even though I was hired, I still have the imposter syndrome pretty strong, which I don't think it goes away because there's always so much to learn. You're think, oh, how am I ever going to do this? There's so much to know. And then you think, okay, I think I got this under control and there's a whole different framework or different thing. You're like, oh my, how now I have to learn MPM.

Anthony (04:40):
How do I start this?

Alex Booker (04:41):
There's always something need to learn in the- Yeah, for sure.

Anthony (04:44):
What helped me the most is keeping a tight schedule every evening, because I work four days a week. So I only have time in the evening, and sometimes in between when my son goes to sleep in the afternoon. But I ready had, every day at least two hours a day, I'm going to do Scrimba and read some documentation. There was a goal. So I had an alarm on my phone around eight o'clock in the evening. I started open up my laptop and started working and studying and just kept at it.

Alex Booker (05:11):
I feel like that consistency is so important. I mean, you know there's always something new to learn about web developments. It's only worse when you're starting out because there's so much more in front of you.

Alex Booker (05:21):
And so it sounds to me like you just broke it down into what you can control, the smallest arguably simplest step, I'm going to sit in front of my computers between now and then. And I'm just going to try and if you do that long enough, you'll be surprised at how much progress you really make.

Anthony (05:37):
Yeah. Yeah really. Yeah. Especially what's nice with the structured lessons, you can always just, if you're a bit tired of the end, you just go back the next day, start two lessons back and keep that pattern just ramming in all the knowledge , or trying to keep the repetition going, which really helped a lot. And I really, I wish I noticed in the beginning, I really wish I didn't try to learn everything, because there's so much information like then you get a blog and a newsletter and it's like, you have to know this, or top five tips to become a front-end developer. Like, oh no, I have to learn this as well, oh, I've gotta fit this in.

Alex Booker (06:08):
Yeah. Throwing a few crash courses and top 10 articles and as a recipe for being overwhelmed.

Anthony (06:15):
Yeah. So just during the basic at first, basic basic basics and then started expanding on that.

Alex Booker (06:21):
You mentioned that with Scrimba, you liked the structure. What does that mean exactly?

Anthony (06:26):
Well, you start reading with the basics like HML CSS. I believe the first lesson is you make a small to JavaScript, which of first I got-. I was okay with HML and CSF, could make a small box and color it. This is really the basics, its all the knowledge I had. And I was so afraid of adding JavaScript. So I was like, ah, okay. No. Okay. JavaScript. Okay, here we go.

Anthony (06:48):
But yeah, don't have a choice because you have the structure first HML CSS, JavaScript. And I was like, okay, sit down, learn JavaScript. And it's like, okay, baby steps, baby steps. Just get to know the-. How manipulate the DOM and all the basic stuff. And then you can dig deeper, deeper, deeper. What I like is the structure of you first see HML CSS, JavaScript and then you make a project, and that's the real big difference, which really changed my learning experience, the projects. That's also what helped me, I think get the most job invites. And really the biggest thing that helped is starting a blank file and rewrite. I believe Bob's role from the React courses, that is a lot, you just start with a blank foul and start over again, and see if you remember the ultimate test, which is a bit, you get sweaty hands, but it's really worth it at the end for your learning process.

Anthony (07:39):
Cause I was like, okay. And after five times or something, okay, I think I can do this. And that really gives you confidence and really helps you in the long run, I believe.

Alex Booker (07:48):
I think you've hit the nail on the head and I can imagine people listening, nodding along as they listen along. Because you are, you are absolutely right. You're learning to code. And then you learn about all these different technologies and frameworks and you get all this advice. And what happens is you sometimes skip steps and maybe that feels quick in the moment because you feel like you're progressing and covering a lot of ground, but if you're not covering the fundamentals, that means you're probably going to have to go back to the beginning at some point and almost struggle. And necessarily because you won't be making a sort of linear progress now you'll be kind of going back and forth and up and down so to speak.

Alex Booker (08:26):
And that's one thing we really try and address with the career path is, it's somewhat opinionated. Like at some point we say, okay, now it's time to learn React. But at that point you should have already been exposed to all the foundational stuff like HML, CSS, the basics of JavaScript, like you said, accessing and manipulating the DOM. And I guess the opinionated part is like, you pick React in this case, but the truth is there's fair demand for all those different front hand frameworks and libraries. They're all equally capable for the most part. Whatever you can do an Angular, you can probably do a React. But it creates this kind of analysis paralysis for new developers that doesn't actually help them. You know, Bob is incredibly hands on isn't he like, he won't let you finish the module until you've actually proved to yourself that you understand and remember it.

Alex Booker (09:12):
And at that point you can go on to the next module.

Anthony (09:14):
For sure, because I finished the career path the first time and then I went back because you renewed the React course. I was like, it's a good practice, you know? And then all the challenges help you so much, especially the factual requests to calling an API. That really helps a lot writing it six times in a row in different challenges. This is a good way to learn the code, learning all the syntax, just learning in general I think.

Alex Booker (09:37):
Coming up, on the Scrimba podcast.

Alex Booker (09:39):
How Anthony hacked his productivity by setting a deadline.

Anthony (09:43):
You can keep going with projects, making and changing the background and adding a gradient animation or whatever. I was like, okay, no, it's fine. It works. Put it on GitHub, next project.

Alex Booker (09:52):
All that to come and more. But first I'd like to ask that if you are enjoying this episode. That you use your podcast app to leave a review or a comment on the Scrimba podcast, it's a small thing, but it really helps support the show. If your app does not support that or maybe you've done it already, thank you. Anthony and I would love it if you shared this episode with your friends in your community or on social media, that would be awesome.

Alex Booker (10:20):
Next week, I'm talking with the one, the only Kevin Powell about CSS and CSS4, if you can believe it. Kevin is a bit of a CSS ladge and a Scrimba teacher.

Kevin Power (10:32):
I first started with making websites and anything like that back when I was in high school, near the end of high school, which would be the late nineties. So the web was a very different place back then. And every time I'd sort of come back, it would be like, oh, things have changed a little bit. Like now, we have CSS can do more than it could. We don't use the center element anymore or the font size and all of that. Now, we're doing it like this, and then-. So it was always sort of, comeback, refresh, see all the new things that are going on.

Alex Booker (10:56):
Make sure you subscribe to the podcast as not to miss it. Back to the interview with Anthony.

Alex Booker (11:03):
So you mentioned that you pretty much got a job in one day more or less of a year. That's just incredible, actually. When did you start to feel ready to apply to jobs? And what was your kind of strategy for getting your first junior developer job, Anthony?

Anthony (11:18):
I read a lot of articles and I finished Getting Hired section. So I made a LinkedIn, I made my portfolio website. And what really helped me and made me feel confident was making my own projects and having them on my website and on my LinkedIn for people to watch. And eventually I also put those two on my resume because I don't have any experience as a programmer or as a front-end developers. I was like, okay, I need to show them, I can do something things I made these mobile screen grabs in a Figma file and totally-. Made a bit of a flashy design, almost half the page with a small description of what I did and what I used.

Anthony (11:52):
And that's what gave me the most confidence. And really, all the interviews I had. They always mentioned that. Yeah, I really like to resume your project. And I was like, okay, that seemed to work a lot. Course I got rejected. I started the 1st of February applying for jobs and I got two or three rejections, like a few emails. I was like, oh yeah, we thought we're looking for somebody else, or your education level's not good enough on what we're looking for. I was like, okay, I need to do something different. So, and then I said, I really have to push and show them, I can do something, I can make a project, I can work with new frameworks. And I think that's the biggest reason I got a lot of attention, especially with the recruiters, because I just started, I got pretty, not depressed, but I got, okay, this is going to be way harder than I thought, I was ready to apply for half a year and then I really would get desperate.

Anthony (12:40):
But then I just started looking for the recruiters on LinkedIn and just mailing everybody, all the jobs, all the companies that were looking hiring, I would just send my resume. And really fine tuning my motivation letter and my resume a bit helped a lot as well. I wouldn't do that always, but the company I really liked, I was like, oh yes, I really have to put in an extra effort. And I'd always get a positive response , or at least get a phone call and like, 'Hey yeah, we'd like to set up a meeting or have a little talk". And that really helped a lot.

Alex Booker (13:09):
When you actually like demonstrate, you put some effort into the application ,and even a little bit of heart there, I say just because you really are passionate about development and breaking into tech. People feel a bit obligated to reply, but I mean, if there's the least I can do is schedule a quick call and give Anthony the benefit of the doubts. Right. And just try our best to find a good reason to work together.

Anthony (13:29):
Yeah, yeah. For sure. You need that first call just to get their attention, get your foot in the door. And I just need the first response. And then maybe if I can talk to them, I can show them I'm really enthusiastic, and I really want to learn, and I want to move along with my learning process, and I hope I can be a valuable asset to their company.

Alex Booker (13:46):
Did you ever get any sorts of interesting replies from the companies you didn't put a lot of effort into the cover letter for.

Anthony (13:54):
Yes I did. But then there were really small companies were starting up, and really, really desperate for people. So they really just wanted someone to hire and it was also a lot less fun development work. A lot was just really writing only the HTML and then sending it to somebody else, which is okay to learn, I think. But I was really hoping I could do something-. Cause I really enjoyed writing CSS and now I'm really into Next.js and React. I really wanted to do something with that, so I was looking at stacks or places where they were looking for somebody to fill that role.

Anthony (14:24):
But I got okay responses, the best response I really got from fine tuning my application. They really had a lot of response, especially from the recruiters. Just one night I was up, I think till three o'clock, four, o'clock, just banging out emails. I think I sent over a hundred. Now I think that wasn't necessary at all. I just sent two a day at least, and that's fine. If you look something up you like and you think I think I can be a nice fit for this job. Cause that's the thing as well, I was looking at React jobs and a lot of them were senior, senior, senior. I was like, I'm never going to be up to that. So it got me bit demotivated in the beginning, but I was like, okay, there must be some-.

Anthony (15:04):
Because there's so much jobs at the moment in fund and development work like every, every day I would get an email from LinkedIn. There are 40 new jobs in your neighborhood. I was like, okay, there must be something in it for me, a starting position. And it's also maybe lucky where you live or where your location is. I'm in the busy part of the Netherlands, so it could be a factor as well.

Alex Booker (15:26):
I like what you say about sort of pacing yourself. I don't know if you or anybody listening can relate to this, but say you're looking for a new apartment because your lease is coming up to an end or something. If you can start looking for a place like months in advance and just do a couple of viewings a week and send out some emails, that's quite a leisurely pace and you can find success, and you have the security of like already having a house. Right. But then if you let it get to the very end and you've now got this like really bad pressure about, oh my gosh, I need to find someone new. I'm going to stay up until 3:00 AM looking at places, making a list. It's going to affect-. It is just this idea that if you can take it a little bit more deliberately and approach it a bit more deliberately, and you will find success but you'll be kind of happier in the process.

Alex Booker (16:11):
Tell us about the job that you got. What was that like? Did they reply to you and invite you to an interview? Where did you go from there?

Anthony (16:19):
I was talking with three companies at the end and did the assessment from one, which was a pretty big company in the Netherlands. But the job, the role was a lot less exciting as the one I got now, because it was just making JavaScript modules and making animation and that was it, all the commercials or the ads on the pages. It was pretty funny actually, how I got the job I got hired for because it was a LinkedIn. Somebody had an hour hiring so I just applied. I first checked their website, I was like, what's this company doing? What they are about, this looks like a nice place to work, a fun young company.

Anthony (16:52):
And I applied and I got called, I believe two days after I sent a message. They were like, we're really excited to have a meeting with you. I was like okay, cool, I'll have a meeting. And then on the day of the meeting, somebody got COVID at her office. So it got canceled and got moved to just a zoom meeting. But it was really a really nice chat I had with two people were interviewing me and had some technical questions and a bit of my journey or how I got into a web development and the things I knew, my knowledge a bit. But that's also a thing that really scared me a bit. Not scared me but made me nervous because every company has such different questions and different skills they're looking for, even though it's not mentioned in the job description. I was really nervous. It was a really nice relaxed chat, just chatted for an hour and a half I believe.

Anthony (17:39):
And it was a really fun job.\, I really felt nice. I was like, okay, that's really one of the best interviews I had so far. And then I was talking to my wife and I said, "it was really fun, I hope they called me back because you made a meeting, they would send me an email about the next meeting". And then they called me 10 minutes later. I was like, I really liked our talk, and the two guys knew each other and it was like we really think he'll be an asset to the team. And they put an offer and I was like, oh yeah, for sure, I really would like to work with you guys.

Alex Booker (18:08):
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, did you say after 10 minutes? What?

Anthony (18:12):
Yeah. After 10 minutes after the meeting, they called me back on the phone.

Alex Booker (18:16):
Oh my God. That's amazing Anthony.

Anthony (18:17):
Yeah. Yeah. I was really, really happy, really happy. I really didn't expect it all. I had my phone also on mute because I was in a zoom meeting. So had everything turned off, no vibration and there was lying on the kitchen table and she was like, they're calling you again. I was like, they're already rejected me cause it didn't go so well. So I was like, oh man, okay, yes here we go.

Alex Booker (18:35):
That's what I would think as well.

Anthony (18:36):
Yeah. So I was like, okay. So, "Hey, Anthony". But they were like, "We're really excited". I was like, oh wow. Couldn't have gone any better actually.

Alex Booker (18:43):
Oh man, well done, that was incredible. And fair play to them as well because that sounded like they could just rely on that gut feeling and obviously like gut feelings was that you would be a great asset to the team.

Alex Booker (18:53):
What does the company do exactly?

Anthony (18:55):
We are a printing company, and they have a lot of different startups. They have a few website already up and running, and they're going to totally redo their websites and everything from the ground up. So it's going to be a new graph QL database and a next GS website. So they're totally starting everything up with a team. So I'm one of the designers on the front-end part. Yeah. So I'm writing next GS and all the fun stuff. =.

Alex Booker (19:20):
It might be hard for you to say, because I happen to know you're not starting for a few more weeks, but will you be working alongside a graphics designer for example and helping to like code up the HTML and CSS?

Anthony (19:31):
Yeah.

Alex Booker (19:32):
Oh nice. That's very fun. Isn't it? Because you kind of collaborate.

Anthony (19:35):
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. They also hired a new UI UX developer and they have a lot of cool tickets now open for design and everything. So I could start right away with a lot of cool tasks. So I really look forward to starting.

Alex Booker (19:48):
And yeah, you just said earlier in the episode, how HML CSS is something you are interested in. So it sounds like you are going to have an opportunity to master it in this new role.

Anthony (19:56):
Yeah. Yeah, I really hope so.

Alex Booker (19:57):
When you got the offer, you attempted at all to negotiate?

Anthony (20:01):
Well, not really. I said my salary from my current job. And they were like, okay yeah, sure. And I just told them, I really don't want to-. I know it's a starting position, but I have a kid and a family and I really wouldn't like to start lower, so if it's possible, the same would be okay or even a bit less, because I really want to start my new career. And they were like fine. And they put it in a nice offer. I was like, okay. Yeah. I don't mind that salary at all. As a starting position, I'm really, really happy with the offer I got.

Alex Booker (20:29):
I would feel the same way Anthony to be honest. You need a long term mindset, don't you. And as long as you can support your family and have a good quality of life that allows you to be productive, right. But then this is just the beginning. Isn't it like where you go from here, there's no ceiling. And once you have that on your resume and you have this genuine experience under your belts, you're going to learn so much from the designers and the other developers on the team. Most people, when you zoom out far enough, their career is like a series of snapping stones and you just have to, get on that first stone and the rest will take care of itself.

Anthony (20:59):
Yeah. I also was hoping for a junior role because a lot of companies now have, you only work one day at the office and the rest is through Teams or Google. And I really, I know the best way to learn is just to sit next to another programmer and ask, because I always have tons of questions and I really was hoping I could find a nice team I can join and learn a lot from. So that was a great fit as well.

Alex Booker (21:21):
Will you work full time in the office then?

Anthony (21:23):
It's a hybrid situation just the first few weeks I'm going to be at the office and they have a whole package that you can work at a home. So that's nice as well.

Alex Booker (21:31):
So you get to choose on the day basically.

Anthony (21:33):
Yeah. And also really like, I always used to work not every weekend, but every other weekend I work now, and that's really nice as well. It's just the office job. So also holidays I'm now off and the weekends I'm off, so that's really a nice change.

Alex Booker (21:46):
Oh I get it. So like at Sea World, you said you worked four days a week and I assume in your contract there weren't just holiday days and sick days and things like that. But now you've moved on to a true full-time contract, you have so many more benefits.

Anthony (22:01):
Yeah. Cause normally when it's holiday, I'm working more and when it's, when school holiday I'm working more. So it's a different world.

Alex Booker (22:08):
It's interesting. This conversation has shifted a bit towards compensation and things. Because to be honest, like holiday days and sick days, these are the things that matter as well as like how much you get paid. And if you're coming from other industry where maybe this isn't so common, and they have lots of friends who do similar jobs, by the way, who struggle with this exact same thing. And I've also heard from people who've become developers, how one of their favorite things is just the stability and predictability of it, whilst also getting to work on meaningful problems that excite them and help challenge them every day.

Alex Booker (22:40):
You know, needless to say, I think you're in a really great place.

Anthony (22:43):
Yeah, really. I really feel lucky and that it worked out to the end because I was pretty nervous. I was telling everybody I really want to get it between in a year. And then the new year was, and I was like, okay, I only a few months left to put a bit of pressure on myself, which wasn't necessary at all cause I'm not at all unhappy at my current job, so I could just apply to jobs for six months. But I really thinks it's useful to have a deadline and a pretty strict one, cause otherwise it just keeps going. And I was like, I'll try, I'll try Angler or try few and learn this next time. And then just keep postponing your education and work.

Alex Booker (23:17):
I do think having that goal is important because it helps align you.

Anthony (23:21):
Yeah, definitely. It really helps a lot, especially with my resume because I really put way too much effort and work into my first one that I'd send out only maybe 20 times or 15 I think. It was also too big I think, I made it three pages with a QR symbol. They can scan to view my GitHub if they didn't. I was like, okay, that's way too over engineered. So, and then I just made one pager with a photo and the skills I had, and which framers I can work with my current job, the job I had before and my projects and that was it. And that would only took me, I believe only three hours or two hours. And the other one took be I think a week or something combined.

Alex Booker (23:57):
Ohh.

Anthony (23:57):
Yeah. Yeah.

Alex Booker (23:58):
Have you heard of this thing called the 80 20 rule? Sometimes it's called Pareto Principle.

Anthony (24:03):
Yeah. That's really what I did at the end, especially with my projects, because you can keep going with making and changing the background and adding a gradient animation or a whatever. I was like, okay, no it's fine, it works, put it on GitHub, next project.

Alex Booker (24:16):
I really think this is something you realize once you found success, you're like, maybe I didn't need to put so much effort into that, or like, maybe my time would've been better spent elsewhere. And therefore maybe I could have found success sooner and been happier sooner or whatever it is true.

Anthony (24:30):
The Pareto Principle just says that you get like 80% of the outcome from 20% of your effort. Right? So if you just do a first part on the resume, use a template, do your best, watch a couple of YouTube videos. It's going to get you like 80% of the results, even though you only spent 20% of the possible time on it. If you continue to optimize it, it's not going to make a huge difference. It'll go from 80 to 85%. And this probably won't be the thing that changes your outcome honestly. And also remember that you can always increment things and iterates on [inaudible 00:25:02].

Alex Booker (25:02):
Same with the gear. I read all these things best laptop for programming, best monitor. And I was like, no, I used to play guitar and bass guitar and everything. And then you always get hooked. I need this pedal, I need this. And that's really something I learned from that. You don't need anything, you just need the basics. You just need to put in the time, just sit and write and try to make your own projects and make it a bit stand out. Don't make a to-do list and put it on your resume. I mean you can if you don't add that much projects, but in my case, it was best to make a bit of a niche project that was like, okay, what's this? Why would you use this ever? And that got me the most question also on the job interviews.

Anthony (25:38):
You can think about gear and equipment all day, every day, right? And in the programming world. Maybe it's a keyboard or a monitor, but more likely it's a framework or a library, like do I learn Angular? Do I learn Vue.js? Do I learn Android? Do I learn Web? But at the end of the day, it's just procrastination.

Alex Booker (25:53):
It's kind of easy to deliberate those things compared to actually doing the hard work. Is there any sort of advice you could offer to anybody listening who is just a little bit behind you maybe, on their front-end web development journey?

Anthony (26:05):
That not only watching YouTube videos, which totally help, but really only watch YouTube videos under current subject you're working on or trying to learn. Same with documentation. Really helped me a lot with just reading the MDM pages. I don't know, erase and just going over all the functions. And then you can use it in the evening or the day after. And what helped me at the end was the new React documentation, the Beta Docs I believe, because it's really interactive. Yeah. That's challenges and everything. And if you are going to make your own project, really make something you're passionate about. It really helps to stick to it and keep building it.

Alex Booker (26:41):
We will definitely link the React Docs and your projects as well, so people can draw a bit of inspiration from them in the show notes. Anthony, thank you so much for joining me on the Scrimba podcast, it's been a pleasure.

Anthony (26:53):
Thank you for having me and good luck everybody.

Alex Booker (26:56):
That was Anthony from the Netherlands. Thank you for listening. If you've made it this far, you might want to subscribe for more helpful and uplifting episodes with recently hired juniors like Anthony and industry experts alike. As a reminder, I'm speaking with Kevin Powell next week about CSS in what will be episode 62 of these screener podcast. You can also tweet me your host, Alex Booker, and share what lessons you learned from the episode, so I can thank you personally for tuning in. My Twitter handle, along with Scrimba's is in the show notes.

Alex Booker (27:28):
See you next week.